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 Post subject: Melbourne Signals
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:33 am 
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J class (light lines)
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:47 am
Posts: 97
Location: Prague, Czech Republic, Europe
G´Day to Victoria!
I am from Czech Republic, Europe, and I study Technology of Transport systems management on the University of Pardubice. My core mean of transport is urban railway. I´m interrested in Melbourne Transport Network as well as railway safeworking all around the world. I decided to start building a suburban line with Melbourne signalling.

I´ve been unsatisfied with signaling capabilities which TRS2004 gave me. Particulary with Medium Speed signaling and no low speed. I´ve browsed the net but without sucess... So I´ve spend one evening making new 30 variants(and next comming) of signals(without scripts) on the basic TRS2004 SAR signal models. It works fine now. I would like to share my work with you if you would like it. But I have a few questions.

1) May be a stupid one. Do I have to ask Auran for permission to use their models or it is enough to write copyright notice and declare Auran as author of model?

2) One technical. I´ve read vicsig.net page for signaling many times. But the use of repeating signals remains unclear to me. Are repeating signals inserted between two normally interacting signals(say last automatic signal and home signal)? Or it is used where the preceeding signal doesn´t show Warning aspect(due to distance) as well as Distant signal in two position signaling?

Thanks for your time.
V.R.


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 Post subject: Re: Melbourne Signals
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:48 am 
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H class (express goods/passenger)
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Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:45 pm
Posts: 2777
Location: australia, victoria
Hi,

For signalling you might want to check this site too.

http://victorianrailways.net/photogalle ... x_a_c.html

-Aaron

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 Post subject: Re: Melbourne Signals
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:49 pm 
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H class (express goods/passenger)
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Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:20 am
Posts: 3329
Location: North Western suburbs of Melbourne, Victoria
G'day NSWGR AD60,

Welcome to Victrainz. The link Aaron™ has provided will help you immensely. Although the information on the Vicsig website is very good, it isn't quite as comprehensive as it could be (the site is directed at a specific 'clientèle' and subsequently leaves 'holes' here and there; on the other hand, the VictorianRailways website is 'operated' by one of our suburban Train drivers and covers those gaps)...

...on the VR (V/line and Metro, these days), Repeating Signals are used solely to 'repeat' the aspect (either 'on' - at 'stop' - or 'off' - showing a 'proceed' aspect), in circumstances where an otherwise good and clear view of the signal being 'repeated' would not be possible under normal circumstances, so that the driver of an approaching train has an earlier indication of the aspect displayed on the signal being repeated. They are also used (or used to be - I'm not 100% sure if this is still the case), to indicate the aspect of the following signal, when the signalling system changes from Two Position into Three Position...

...it should be noted that 'Repeating' Signals and 'Co-acting' Signals are not the same kind of signals and should never be confused)...

...as a registered 'member' of this forum, we would be only too willing to offer advise and we have a special area of the website (space on 'our' server) set aside where we can store images and files that we 'share' here (and even use for the purpose of an 'alternative' Download Station). If you ask politely, I am sure one of our administrators will 'allow' you access to these (via FTP), so that you can 'share' your files and display your images with us...

...the number of assets covering the Suburban Signaling (three position 'Light' and 'Semaphore' Signals) is sadly lacking in Trainz, so your announcement will be most welcome. If you have any questions, we'll help you out (we're like that, here)...

Jerker {:)}


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 Post subject: Re: Melbourne Signals
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:09 pm 
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J class (light lines)
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:47 am
Posts: 97
Location: Prague, Czech Republic, Europe
Hi,
Thanks for your answers folks. Thanks for a chance to humbly participate in your comunity.

Thanks for explanation. So the repeating signal gives train-driver update of information which has already been told him by preceeding signal. Am I right?

I am about to upload the file in zip on some temporary share www at this time. I am from Czech republic where all is other. So I don´t even hope that my solution will be fully correct. I will like you all to post ideas how to improve it even more. It is reprogrammed basic signals from TRS2004. I know it isn´t the exact shape of Melbourne suburban signals. I hope it is at least believable it to be Melbourne sig.

I am not familiar with scripting. So I used solely "lights" and "signals" columns and I made multiple settings for one model of signal. At this time it cannot handle switch position at all. It is once laid for ussual speed signal and the aspects cannot be modified unless replacing signal.

I will pack it to zip file and write instructions for it now.

Thanks for all. V.R.


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 Post subject: Re: Melbourne Signals
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:30 pm 
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H class (express goods/passenger)
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Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:20 am
Posts: 3329
Location: North Western suburbs of Melbourne, Victoria
G'day NSWDR AD60,

...you wrote...

..."...So the repeating signal gives train-driver update of information which has already been told him by preceeding (sic) signal. Am I right?..."...

...aside from having two letter 'es' in 'preceding' (there should only be one) - which I won't 'hold against you' - I think you have misinterpreted my response. The 'Repeating' Signal will ALWAYS precede the signal that it is 'repeating', "so as to give the driver of an approaching train an early indication of the aspect of the Signal being repeated"...

Jerker {:)}


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 Post subject: Re: Melbourne Signals
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:33 pm 
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J class (light lines)
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:47 am
Posts: 97
Location: Prague, Czech Republic, Europe
Thanks,
that was a typo. Thanks for your patient explanation. I will give it a try to include it later.
Here is the link for work version.
http://mysharegadget.com/198848339
This file will stay on the web for 19 days.
Try it out. I don´t guarantee accuracy. If you find something wrong - I would be happy to see your comments either here or on mail in the readme.

I know about some minor bugs such as folder naming and so on. This will be fixed in future. Take this as testing set.

Here I copy a part from the readme.txt:

-------------------------------------------------
This version doesn't use switch position for
determining speed restriction. Each signal has
its determined behavior based on number of blocks
free. The following table shows variants.

First column presents reference number(not shown in game)
Second column presents name of signal in game
Third column presents sequence of signals given as the
previous train is running away. First for no block free,
second for one block free and third for at least
two blocks free.

Signal 1
11 - 0-LC - Stop - Low Speed Caution
12 - 0-C - Stop - Clear
13 - 0-W-C - Stop - Warning - Clear
14 - 0-W - Stop - Warning
15 - 0-MW-CM - Stop - Medium Warning - Clear Medium
16 - 0-MW - Stop - Medium Warning
17 - 0-W-RM - Stop - Warning - Reduce Medium
18 - 0-CM - Stop - Cleared Medium


Signal 2
22 - 0-C - Stop - Clear
23 - 0-W-C - Stop - Warning - Clear
24 - 0-W - Stop - Warning
25 - 0-MW-CM - Stop - Medium Warning - Clear Medium
26 - 0-MW - Stop - Medium Warning
27 - 0-W-RM - Stop - Warning - Reduce Medium
28 - 0-CM - Stop - Clear Medium


Signal 3
33 - 0-W-C - Stop - Warning - Clear
34 - 0-W - Stop - Warning
37 - 0-W-RM - Stop - Warning - Reduce Medium


Signal 4
40 - 0 - Stop
42 - 0-C - Stop - Clear
43 - 0-W-C - Stop - Warning - Clear
44 - 0-W - Stop - Warning


Signal 5
52 - 0-C - Stop - Clear
53 - 0-W-C - Stop - Warning - Clear
54 - 0-W - Stop - Warning
-------------------------------------------------

I am not sure if signals 12 and 22, 42 and 52 can be used anywhere.

V.R.


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 Post subject: Re: Melbourne Signals
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:50 pm 
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J class (light lines)
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:47 am
Posts: 97
Location: Prague, Czech Republic, Europe
I have studied the repeating signal again and also elsewhere. I am once more so sorry. I am still confused.
We in CZ have "pre-signals" and "repeating pre-signals". Pre-signals do provide the first-contact information about home signal(mostly) where preceding absolute signal doesn´t provide so.
While repeating pre-signals are placed where visibility of home sig. isn't good enough so trains would have to almost stop to see the signal if it was cleared after the train has passed pre-signal(or last CTC signal).

As I catched it so repeating signals are the first ones. Is this finaly well?

Thanks so much for patient being. Once again sorry.


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 Post subject: Re: Melbourne Signals
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:12 pm 
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Site Admin
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Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:25 pm
Posts: 3151
Location: Victoria, Australia
Ok, hopefully this helps.

A 'repeater' signal is placed before the signal it's 'repeating'. This is for areas where a crew may not be able to see the signal until they are too close. So...

>------(repeater signal repeating signal A's indication)------>--------(signal A)------->------(signal B)------->

The '>' indicates the direction of travel

Unfortunately, I don't think TRS2004 supports 'repeater' signals without heavy scripting. IIRC, Trainz Classics 3 and newer do include a 'non scripted' (or at least 'simple' scripted) methods of supporting these.

Hope that helps.

Zec

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 Post subject: Re: Melbourne Signals
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:21 pm 
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J class (light lines)
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:47 am
Posts: 97
Location: Prague, Czech Republic, Europe
Thanks. All clear now. Thanks for your being patient. I was confused.

_________________
V.R. - Just another railway safety geek; living for the dream of safe, fast and efficient railways...


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 Post subject: Re: Melbourne Signals
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:58 pm 
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J class (light lines)
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:47 am
Posts: 97
Location: Prague, Czech Republic, Europe
I think that distant signal can be solved using false R/R indication on "warning" trainz indication on the preceding station´s starting signal. At least for human driver. AI will pass on it.

This way we can also simulate the signal preceding home signal to set to clear at the same while as home signal itself.(with the same limitations).

I´ve done so with CZ signals already. I can try to do it here aswell.


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