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Should we now push for BG wheelsets where ever they ran as BG
Poll ended at Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:59 pm
Yes bring Victrainz back to its roots. 57%  57%  [ 4 ]
No I do not wish to run on BG 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
no happy to leave things as they are. 14%  14%  [ 1 ]
Will go with the flow 14%  14%  [ 1 ]
Not voting just looking at results because I am a pussy :) 14%  14%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 7
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:54 pm 
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Hello All.

few of us have been thinking about Victrainz and its objects and Its goals!

At the start we were all about Victorian content and even had a member who developed BG track and Dual Gauge as well. So we thought that anything that was bogie exchanged could be downloaded in BG or SG.
But as time went on we broadened our outlook, and members created Victorian stuff and New South stuff as well as Queensland and South Australian and it all arrived at the DLS mostly in SG.

So some of us have decided it is time to return to our routes, and these should be BG ones at that :)

Now is a great time to make this change. We have great BG track available to us, and we are working on matching dual gauge as well I think SG?

With Bearcat taking over management of Peter Couvee's fine uploads, the ones left on VicTrainz are looking a little lost and this is where I propose we start to change our ways.

With Peter C's approval I propose to upgrade all the 1854 that did operate on BG in Victoria, that has been re-released by Bearcat using his modifications with permission of course, and our own mods, then after converting to BG, we simply replace the outdated 1854 items so that they are upgraded to work error free in TS12 and operate on BG. The descriptions on the DLS should now reflect these are BG models, and the SG version is available here Bearcats Kuid:xxxx:xxxx

Some of our members have already made a start on this, but we ask all those who are capable of helping to offer their fixes so that we can get this job done.
Most importantly we ask our VicTrainz members to consider the future and help us and to agree to the creation of our new aims from 2013 onwards.
We need to create a Kuid 1854 priorities list where Victorian Content is encouraged, then Bogie Exchangeable through rolling stock from all States, and finally those friends from other places can upload using their own KUIDs, but still have access to everything we offer as per normal.

So lets build stuff that never saw a SG wheel set in BG Lets build stuff that ran on both gauges on both wheelsets. As for Interstate creations lets convert them all to BG if they ran on the BG.

I thought that small upgrades to our naming conventions are in order as well

VR-BG, VR-SG, V/Line-BG, V/Line-SG (never vline).
FV or FA-BG, and FV or FA-SG that is FA-SG or FV-BG.
AN-SG, PN-SG.

Never RY-VR greathorrible open wagon-BG which means the little open window in Surveyor does not keep all the BG and SG stuff together and means you have to at least hover on the item to pick BG from SG, which wastes a lot of time, when setting up.

I ask anybody who owns any of the builders rights for 1854 stuff to write a post here either allowing these upgrades so that everybody can see where we are heading and that we do have permission :)

Cheers
Rod Young

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:37 pm 
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Hi Rod
I personally prefer to have BG at the end. For starters, I aint changing all of my content to a new naming system when people are starting to get used to it!

Remember, the list is alphabetical. So any item that has '-BG'/'BG'/'- BG' and similar at the end will appear above anything with '-SG'/'SG'/'- SG' at the end of the name. So, for example, my I wagons pack every second wagon is SG.

I'm also a firm believer of having SG versions where ever possible. It opens up our content to a wider audience for a smallish amount of effort (hence why my payware is both!). Rolling stock is dead easy, even with baked/weathered/etc bogies. Steamers are harder, particularly if the firebox takes up the full width of the frames, but it can be done (and if you want it perfect, well that's what BG is for!).

I should note that, due to more detailed vehicles, variation naming is important. So 'VR-BG-I Wagon T17' will have the important part (T17, telling you what the wagon is!) falling of the end. OTOH 'VR I wagon T17 - BG' has the important information shown, and we already know the second one will be SG... Eventually, we'll have multiple U van, T van, I wagon, etc variations in Trainz, which will mean the 'type' naming will separate these clearly.

Plus, when you click on a wagon, the full name appears at the top. The I wagons are an exception as they were an early version of the 'type' naming. When I release the update, I'll change it from 'Type 17' to 'T17'. However, the gauge will remain at the end of the name still...

Regards

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:26 am 
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Zec :)
How did I know you would create an argument out of this :)

You say every second item is BG, However I offered a way of making all the BG ones sit together and all the SG sit together after and then all the NG .
When consisting a train it is rather simple. All the BG stuff is there and you don't have to hover over the name to find the one you want. It takes half a sec to hover and highlight and near a full second to shift the cursor and get the yellow descriptor to start up, and for me it is frustrating.

Go to..
VR-BG I open.....
vR-BG
vR-BG
vR-BG
vR-BG
vR-BG
vR-SG
vR-SG
vR-SG
vR-SG
vR-SG
vR-SG

perhaps the easiest way is to ask the game designers to let the box display more characters, but that wont happen any time soon will it?

But anyway this is just one more frustration that drives me out of Trainz. And I hear from others too, that just cant get interested in it for many reasons in addition to the way things are set up.
So if we don't want to make improvements, don't I will drift further away, and one day I just won't care any more.
Cheers
Rod

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:33 am 
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... What if they ran on both. Leave the names as is.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:08 am 
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Alright, I'm going to throw my mashed potato into the mix...

Yes, we can have BG and SG variants of each wagon. We could also have the scripting that switches from BG to SG through the Help icon (?) in Locomotives, but that makes things difficult.

Rod, it's really each to their own, but, as a driving nut, I like to have each wagon in order going down the list, knowing that every second item will be Standard Gauge. It comes down to content creator's preference. I do like Zec's method, and to be perfectly honest, yours, although it might seem good in theory, might not work for at least half the populous.

I'm not trying to be mean, hurtful or degrading, I'm just trying to be one of many voices.

There is one other option...

...everyone names it how they want, and then the users just use Content Search Filter inside Surveyor, typing in either BG, NG or SG, showing a list of every item installed wit those two letters next to each other in that order. So, then it's just a matter of jumping to whatever operator they want stock from...

Cheers,
Callum :geek:


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:36 am 
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Hi Rod

My point is that my naming container more information that just gauge.

VR DD Class T1 Green - BG (VR DD class T1 Green...)
VR BG DD Class T1 Green ( VR BG DD Class T1...)

Which of those is more important, the one that tells you gauge (yet the order of items tells you this as well) or the one that tells you what the content actually is. The 'T1' will always fall of the end if you put BG at the start.

I've thrown together an example based on the DD class...

Image

The yellow name (mouse hovering) is the BG example. Apparently I forgot to put 'BG' at the end, but it's still in order. The second one (selected/white) is the SG version. Simply clicking the name puts the end of the name in the top bar. But we already know that, thanks to alphabetical order, the SG one is second.

Now, I've also done a test of having the name with the gauge at the start (read the first 'DD' as 'BG' or 'SG'). So it's "VR BG DD class - T1...". This gives me absolutely no information on which livery/version from the pack is which. Queue the shitload of complaints through the helpdesk and emails and PM's about not being able to work out which one matches which colour scheme... Actually, it's got a 99% chance of not even passing the QA (testing) team at N3V as a payware pack...

The current system also allows me to type in 'VR DD' to get to the DD class, irrespective of gauge that I'm working on. Or, for a T class, 'VR T'. Easy for the general consumer to remember, everything just goes in alphabetical order under 'VR'.

If this were the I wagons, you'll be hovering over them to work out which one you want to use for your era (e.g. so you can avoid the buffer fitted versions for a post 1950s/60s route). And you'll keep doing it for every wagon you place in your train.

As a note, the NG groups do have a method that's already in use. They put, in inches, the track gauge at the start of the name ( e.g. 30 VR NA Class Green). This method has been used for about 3/4 of the NG content so works as an existing standard. This can work but will again fall down with longer naming where era/type variations come into play.

If you wish to play with your naming convention, you can do so without marking content as 'modified'. To do it, go into Content Manager and select an asset then open the 'asset details' panel on the left. Where the name is, simply enter the new name that you want. Then select the next item, and so on. Be warned, an extended database repair will reset this (a quick database repair shouldn't).

Regards

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:19 am 
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I surrender!
HO trains is hard work, but it certainly does not give me the probs Trainz does these days :)
I guess what I am saying is that I am done with this, its not fun any more, and the computer is giving me the shits wasting so much time every day, when I could be elsewhere building the HO layout. I used to enjoy map making, now I don't. I used to enjoy Multi Player, but the layouts that work are spaghetti crap, and I used to enjoy setting up trains on Wadalbavale and Tarrin Rocks, but now I don't. I guess I just don't like what Trainz has become these days. Nice people and all, its probably time for a break.
Cheers
Rod

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:45 pm 
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Hi All
I was discussing naming/etc with a few of the guys from work. I have come up with a shorter naming which should work for 99.99% of content, and not require everyone to re-do the naming of the content (especially hard where creators are no longer around, or refuse to change ;) ).

Image

Out of the DD's, the only version that won't fit is the tender for the Canadian Red locos (name is 'VR DD T2 Can Red Ten BG'). However, only the tenders should be an issue.

I will, when I update them in future, shorten the names of the other rolling stock. No promises on how short they'll be if they include 'years' in the name though.

Regards
Zec

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